Druid Forum (EU) Recap – Method

Good afternoon Druids,

It’s a slow news day and things here in Boston have been hectic to say the least. But in light of the blue posters cryptic comment that changes are coming our way for druids its worth looking at some very well written posts from Method on the EU forums. Please understand english (or proper english grammer and spelling) aren’t always their #1 priority, the message is.

Post #1 by Nagura of Method

Id like to say something to the current restodruid situation too, ill just put it in this thread since i kinda liked your arguments.
Im playing a restodruid in Method and i actually dont like whining on forums, but since it doesnt seem like blizzard wants to change something anytime soon, ill just try.

First of all: Since im playing with probably some of the best healers out there, no one can say the healers in my guild or me are doing something wrong.

So here is my opinion:

Restodruids are just too weak right now. We are a pure healing class (no absorb, no dmg reduction cd or hp increase) but still cant compete on healing with other healing classes. 
But thats not the main issue, the main issue is, every other healing class brings some awesome utility to the raid (aura mastery, disc barrier, hp increase from shamans, slt, strong tank cds like painsup, guardian spirit, live cocoon, revival, manatide, manahymn, all sort of absorbing spells) and restodruids have just nothing like this (ironbark is a nice spell, but just not good enough compared to all the other classes cds).
The only raid cd a restodruid has is tranquility, and a shamans healing tide is healing more + they dont have to channel it for 7 secs and a moonkins tranq with heart of the wild is doing double the healing of a restodruids tranq and even more.

The only thing restodruids are good in right now is tank healing, but since paladins are doing good tank healing too + more raid healing + have aura mastery + hand of purity + hand of protection + absorbs, why bring a restodruid?

There is absolutely no reason to bring a restodruid into the raid, unless your raid needs roar and doesnt have enough moonkins, theres a point in the boss-fight where you need to do burst dmg and restodruids can help with heart of the wild or immunity spells are needed (i rly like symbiosis).

I have to say, im raiding 25 man only, and im pretty sure resto druid is not that bad in 10 man compared to 25 man if it comes to pure healing (aka on healing meters), because reju is by far our best healing spell and the reju uptime on 10 ppl is ofc higher than on 25 ppl and consumes less mana, but since 10 man has limited raid cooldowns because of less players, you obviously dont prefer bringing a restodruid over another class in top pve guilds. 

Conclusion: Restodruid cant compete with other healers in its current state.

Another problem is our gear scaling. In my opinion other healers are scaling way better with gear than restodruids do. Paladin with their mastery ofc, shamans get more spirit = manatide gives more mana, discs get more spirit = get more mana from rapture, and so on.
Restodruids gain mana through innervate, and since the manapool is 300k and doesnt change with gear, we always get the same amount of mana. With more gear we gain more int + more mastery, but it only increases our pure healing and doesnt give us anything else and a LOT of our healing is overheal anyway (thanks to absorbs and smart heals).

Now something about our mushrooms. It was a nice idea and i rly like it because you actually have to think about what youre doing and not only brainless press a button and smartheal ppl, but its rly hard to find a good use for them in most of the fights since players have to constantly move around. I would suggest to give the druid an ability with a cd on it to move all 3 of the mushrooms to another spot (with their current absorbed reju heal), just like shamans can move their totems. Or let us just place the shrooms one by one on another place while keeping the already absorbed reju overhealing.
Also mushrooms are currently healing pets too. So in a 25 man raid with hunter, warlock and dk pets on the boss, the mushrooms just heal a LOT less on the players itself if u put them in melee range. The mushrooms should only heal players, i dont see any use of the mushrooms healing pets.

Also increase the wildgrowth range to 40 yards (from the target casted on), since theres no point to let it on 30 yards, its just annoying.

And we need some useful lvl 90 talents. Our natures vigil is “okay” for resto druids, but we only use it for the 10% healing increase anyway, no one needs the little dmg it does (its just annoying if it breaks cc). But a 10% healing boost every 1,5 mins is just not as good as other healers lvl 90 talents, its too weak to count it as a healing cd. Our heart of the wild passive int/stamina increase is “okay” too and the 6 mins dmg cd is nice for maybe 1 fight out of 10, but other healing classes can do the same dmg without a 6 mins cd on it (monks/disc priests) and they can even heal while doing dmg, and we are doing 0 healing with the cd up, if we dont want to waste it. And dream of cenarius is just bad. So its nice to have hotw or natures vigil, but its just way worse than other healing classes lvl 90 talents.

But even if you would change those things i suggested, we could still not compete with other healers. I dont have a solution to make druids stronger, i think we just need some sort of utility for the raid to make us useful. It wont help to just buff our healing spells like reju or wildgrowth, it wont change a lot.
And the paladins mastery need a nerf finally. Its simply too strong and gives other healers (especially restodruids) no chance to get even close to their healing, but i think thats already known, i dont know why it takes so long to nerf an op healing class while dps classes get balanced/nerfed/buffed way faster. Paladins are just doing up to 40% of their healing with their mastery, thats just so wrong.

So yes, i like playing restodruid and im one of the very rare restodruids playing in the top pve guilds right now. So i would be very happy to see some changes soon so i dont have to reroll another class, just like many other top healers already did.

Post #2 by Owld of Method

As we’ve discussed it extensively with Nagura I’m roughly of the same opinion. And we’ve discussed it on our healing channel and we could see how people are disagreeing on this as well.

All of your ideas show one thing : druid haven’t evolved when other classes did. Druid playstyle is still the same, they just replaced some constrains with others.

Druid has long been a class with a lot of constrains that others did not share. We used to have to keep Mastery up and a 10s Lifebloom. Some will say that other classes have/had different constrains but I strongly disagree. Ours are not tied to our healing but are direct constrains to our gameplay, making it an actual pain to play our class to an above-average level.

The clear lack of potent smart healing spells that have no downside, Wild Growth being heavily lacking behind compared to CoH, Divine Star, Chi Burst, Chi Torpedo, Healing Stream totem or even Light of Dawn (when it was actually used), is making druid an excluded class. 

The lack of passive spells, that does the job for you without having to worry, is just mindblowing. We have close to nothing that is removed from our attention and actual actions and is free of constrains. Things like Earthliving, Restorative mists, Ancestral Awekening, HST, Prayer of Mending, Echo of light, Divine Aegis, Attonement (lol), Beacon of light, etc.. are simply making druid a subpar class.

We now rely more and more on a Rejuv blanketing, hoping that the target you just rolled Rejuv on will not get 4 smart heals instantly. You barely control your healing and it’s relying on a lot of RNG when there is quality healing to be done.

I’m not trying to say other classes have it easy. I’m simply stating the simple fact that they have the tools required for every situation and resto druid is just a pale alternative.

There have been way too many passive spells, smart heals, absorbs, procs and CDs added to the game and given to the classes during the past 2 expansions. All of them besides druid have seen their playstyle overhauled and now fit with the current content. Druid is just the same old stuff and this is why it’s currently lagging behind.

The change to mushroom was a good idea, one that has been around since CATACLYSM BETA, 3 years ago when mushroom was first introduced. And when it comes, it’s with 2 major constrains : 3 gcd and a build up mechanism.

Having played this game for more than 7 years, I think “continually evolving” should be called “permanent BETA”. There is no regularity and no precise view as to what classes should do/be. The amount of time it takes the devs to fix things like disc priest pre-5.2 is astonishing. The amount of time it will take them to fix paladin mastery will probably be on the same level (aka not before 5.4).

As much as I would personnaly hate it, the only way to fix druid is to give it the same attributes as the other classes. So you can understand my point here is a list of ideas (not at all that I want them all together applied) :

- Living Seed should be buffed to work on hots and proc on any damage as well as post-absorb. On the other side you reduce all our hots by a certain %.

- Lifebloom should always account for more than Beacon of Light on tanks. Simple logic = more constrains should reward more. Whether you buff it or nerf paladins, doesn’t matter. It’s still mindblowing for me to see how stupidly powerful Beacon of Light is and requires close to 0 attention. I’ve been complaining about this since early Cata (when LOD was transfering, what a joke).

- Change Nature’s vigil so that 10% of all your healing is evenly distributed in the raid. Make it 20% or 30%, considering how much better everyone else’s 90′ talents are.

- Change our mushrooms, again, so that you maintain the build up and make it so you can put 3 at the same time.

- Remove the f**cking pets from Wild Growth and Mushrooms targetting. This should just be common sense. You litteraly can’t pre-hot with WG, everything goes on pets.

- Harmonize Tranquility, Divine Hymn and Healing Tide totem. Either your remove the channeling, or your nerf the sh*t out of HTT.

- Make our gear scale better, thanks.

Honestly I have plenty of ideas to change every single spell we have to make them more competitive, not healing more but just to expand our toolkit.

ROUND UP

I understand that many of you feel anger and hurt at our current state in 25 man raiding and I totally get that. We feel under-appreciated and undervalued. But the truth is it is because we are less useful and less potent. The sooner we come to terms with that and hope that Blizzard tries to improve us or put us on par with the other healers (25m specifically) the sooner we’ll improve.

I think many of the points brought up by both of them echo sentiments many of my fellow druid bloggers. We need improved raid utility, improved smart or attention free healing, moving or perhaps non-channeled tranquility, moveable or player mounted mushrooms, WG and WM:B not hitting pets, any other combination of issues plaguing us fixed.

I don’t have the energy today to write a really long and thoughtful number crunching post and quite frankly they said everything perfectly fine.

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6 responses to “Druid Forum (EU) Recap – Method

  1. Pingback: A quick note | Restokin

  2. Can’t agree more with them too many shields , smart heals, and semipermanent healing effects.

  3. Interesting comments from some of the best restoration players. I am not a healer, nor do I play the level of these people. While I agree at the core that it looks like from this post, the team waffle restoration round table and the general consensus among players that restoration druids are in a bad place at the moment and need an overhaul. I can’t say I agree with some of the changes suggested.

    I am not a game developer or anything as such, so what I say is just my opinion.

    I don’t think you can directly compare some spells like HTT and tranquility for example. They have different mechanics and are implemented in different ways (tranquillity is baseline, HTT is a talent, channeled vs instant etc…). Comparisons like this have to be done carefully.

    A moonkin with HotW may do more healing with a buffed tranquility , but that’s once every 6 mins vs a 3 min restoration tranquility . “Ideally” I believe the restoration tranquility should definitely be head in output, rather than being equal.

    Buffing NV just for restoration would have impacts on the other druid specs, unless it was restoration only change. I do agree that the level 90 Druid talents are lack luster in terms of throughput and are implemented in a clunky way (I’m looking at you Dream of Cenarius).

    One thing not mentioned here but on the team waffle cast was increased synergy between spells. Looking at the existing tool kit and modifying / adding new spells that compliment each other rather than working independently or not being used at all IMO is worth looking at.

    I like class flavour and I also like the Blizz idea of “bring the player not the class”. I don’t mind class having similar abilities / buffs as long they are implemented in a unique / different fashion. I feel that hamonizing certain spells or removing channeling would create an necessary high level on homogenization. I think that restoration could be fixed without increasing homogenization levels.

    Just my thoughts. I think it is a topic worthy of very in depth discussion and I hope that some changes are made (either to Druids or to other classes) before the end of the expansion.

    ~Elamari

  4. Elmary it’s an interesting reply but I fail to see what is your proposed fix for resto druids?

    • There are a lot of quality of life improvements that I think druids still need to feel more effective.

      As stated wild mushroom needs fixing. Regardless of what school of thought you subscribe to, and there’s plenty out there, it needs a more user friendly implementation. A 100% buff to the base heal is nice, but as long as it is clunky to use and heals pets it doesn’t solve our larger problems.

      Buffing tranquility, like they did in the recent PTR update, is also a dangerous move. It reminds us of the great tranquility meter inflation that was Firelands. As I stated on twitter we don’t want to be a class that heals for a ton with mushrooms and tranquility and for not that much elsewhere. While our throughput is throttled depending on how many absorbs are in the raid, If how you look on a meter (not recount but whatever metric blizzard is using to evaluate throughput) with these healing based cooldowns puts you even throughput wise with a class that uses a mitigation type cooldown that can’t be measured (Barrier, Devo etc.) you get into a sticky situation.

      IF you remove absorbs from the equation our throughput isn’t as bad, and might be closer to good. The issue is that these fixes only target subsets of our paradigm and don’t help us where we need it which is mitigation and burst healing on demand (mushrooms are anything but) among other things.

      As for synergy I believe for our class to stay fresh and interesting it would be wise to build more in as we discussed on the podcast. Right now the only spell related proc we have (that isn’t a talent) is Clearcasting, and the only spell that benefits from another spell inherently is Nourish (which is awful). Lifebloom and Harmony technically but with the longer duration it’s a non-issue.

    • As I said I am not a healer not a restoration Druid. I was trying to look at the suggested changes objectively. My train of thought was really flowing so my suggestions may have come of as criticisms or been mixed up. However, my suggestions were;

      * making resto tranq stronger than offspec + hotw tranqs (on principle)

      * buffing NV for resto only OR complete redesign of level 90 talents to be less clunky and provide better throughput.

      * expanding and modifying resto tool kit for more spells and more synergy between spells WITHOUT homogenization, keeping the flavour of resto.

      Hope that clears it up.

      ~Elamari

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